PART TWO


 


PART ONE

PART TWO

PART THREE

PART FOUR


 RETURN TO THE GATEWAY LOBBY

Chappell: When did you actually turn pro?

 

Jacobs: In 1958. I had about twelve matches in New Zealand, and then I got a deal with a promoter to get my Visa and everything and go to Hawaii. Al Karasick was the promoter in Hawaii.

 

Chappell: What was it like wrestling in Hawaii?

 

Jacobs: (laughs) I didn’t realize I had it so good …I was on the beach everyday and only wrestled about once a week! Walking the beach at Waikiki…I looked like a native after three months on the beach there!

 

Chappell: Do you recall your debut match as a pro?

 

Jacobs: Funny thing, I was just talking to a guy about that. My debut match was a Main Event!

 

Chappell: Really?

 

Jacobs: Yes, it was with ‘Zebra Kid,’ George Bollas. George Bollas was a Big 10 Champ, way back. He was from Columbus, Ohio, but he was in New Zealand touring. The match was in Hastings, New Zealand.

 

Chappell: Describe the transition for you from amateur wrestling to professional wrestling.

 

 

Jacobs: Actually, it tended to be fairly easy. I had watched the guys wrestle, and wrestled a lot of the pros. A lot of the amateurs that were going to turn professional, I wrestled them as well. So…I just went from ‘there’ to ‘there.’ I was lucky that I had spent so much time wrestling amateur.

 

Chappell: Well, with your amateur background, you really had the pure wrestling part of professional wrestling down before you even started as a pro! (laughs)

 

Jacobs: Yeah…I knew all the holds already! (laughs)

 

Chappell: When did make it onto the U.S. mainland?

 

Jacobs: I spent three months wrestling in Hawaii, and then I came to the mainland. The first guy I wrestled for on the mainland was Vince McMahon, Sr. I wrestled in the Northeast for a year or so, and then I went out to Detroit and wrestled around there…and also in Chicago.

 

I remember taking the bus from Washington, D.C. to New York to see a Doctor so I could get licensed by [the New York State Athletic] Commission. I’m thinking, ‘How in the hell am I going to find my way around New York!’ I’m from this little island, and now I’m in the biggest city in the world! But actually, I was scared for nothing…it’s the easiest place in the world to find your way around in. The avenues go one way, and the streets go the other.

 

Chappell: Not those terrible traffic circles! (laughs) You mentioned Chicago…weren’t you part of a big house there?

 

Jacobs: Yes. In Chicago, I was in one of the big houses that they had in Comiskey Park. They had that first one…they had about 36,000 people. They had a bigger one after that, I think about 40,000 for (Buddy) Rogers and (Pat) O’Connor. I wasn’t on the second one…but I was on the first one that had 36,000.

 

Chappell: Who did you wrestle on that first Comiskey Park show?

 

Jacobs: (pauses) Let me think…I think it was Johnny Walker.

 

Chappell: Who would later go on to fame as Mr. Wrestling II.

 

Jacobs: Yes, Johnny ‘Rubberman’ Walker. It’s hard for me to remember for sure, though, because I’ve had over 8,000 matches! (laughs)

 

It’s really hard to remember individual matches, unless it was an extra special card or something extra special happened in the match. Of course, you would wrestle a lot of the same guys different times.

 

Chappell: You traveled a great deal, Abe. Tell us about going to Japan.

 

Jacobs: The first time I went to Japan was 1966, I believe. I was there a bunch of times.

 

Chappell: Didn’t you wrestle under a mask in Japan, as the ‘Red Pimpernel’?

 

Jacobs: Yeah, they wanted to put a mask on me and call me the ‘Scarlet Pimpernel.’ I said, ‘You call me anything you want to.’ (laughs)

 

Chappell: But just make sure you pay me, right? (laughs)

 

Jacobs: Yeah! So, anyways, the ‘Red Pimpernel’ came from…the nearest they could get to ‘Scarlet’ was ‘Red.’ [Editor’s Note: Abe does a great ring introduction of himself from Japan] So…they would announce me as the ‘Reddddddo Pimpernellllllllly.’ So that was it. (laughs)

 

I went back to Japan three or four times, and I always wrestled under the mask there.

 

Chappell: Did you enjoy wrestling in Japan?

 

Jacobs: (pauses) Well…yes and no. It was kind of tough for me over there, really. Everything is different…the language situation was tough. It’s a heck of a country and all, but you know, to each his own. Like I was born and raised on a small island…a lot of people wouldn’t like that, I know.

 

Chappell: I’m sure all the traveling had to be tough at times…being away from home.

 

Jacobs: It’s funny, David, later somebody I knew went over [to New Zealand] to wrestle and when he came back he said, ‘Didn’t you come from New Zealand, Abe? I asked a bunch of people when I was over there and no one had ever heard of Abe Jacobs.’ (everybody laughs)

 

Chappell: How soon they forget! (laughs)

 

Jacobs: (laughing) I told him, ‘Well, I only had ten or twelve matches there as a pro, but I had a bunch as an amateur. If you’d asked the amateurs, they would have known me!’

 

Chappell: Of course, I remember you from the Mid-Atlantic area wrestling as a babyface. Did you ever wrestle as a heel?

 

Jacobs: Well, some places they liked me and some places they didn’t. You could go out and wrestle one way one day, and wrestle the same way the next day…and depending on the crowd, the reaction could be completely different.

 

Chappell: And I guess it could depend on whom you were wrestling.

 

Jacobs: Sure…you might be wrestling that town’s favorite guy. In Japan for example…I wrestled (Antonio) Inoki. You know, the guy who fought Cassius Clay. I wrestled Inoki many, many times…from the north to the south. But no matter where I was in Japan, the people there hated my guts when I wrestled Inoki! (laughs)

 

Chappell: What are some other memorable places you wrestled outside the U.S.?

 

Jacobs: South Africa comes to mind…talking about people not liking you! You know, I roped calves and did a bunch of different stuff with rope…I would wear Western gear and the Cowboy hat and everything.

 

There was no television in South Africa. The promoter over there picks me up and takes me to four newspapers, and the papers were taking my picture and the whole bit. Then, they started asking me questions about their Champion. And, I hadn’t heard of their Champion…I REALLY hadn’t heard of their Champion. (everybody laughs)

 

They asked me how I’d do over there, and I said, ‘Well, I guess I’m going to do all right…I’ve wrestled the best in the world.’ Then they said, ‘How are you going to do against so-and-so?’ I said, ‘Who’s that?’ And, ‘so-and-so’ turned out to be their Champion! (everybody laughs)

 

Chappell: Uh oh! (laughs)

 

Jacobs: Yeah, I guess I said the wrong thing! (laughs)

 

Chappell: I guess it’s fair to say you weren’t the most popular guy in South Africa!

 

Jacobs: It gets worse!

 

Chappell: How so?

 

Jacobs: Anyways, that night I went to the hotel and thought I was done for the day. I had traveled a long ways to get there…and Johannesburg was about 6,000 feet up.

 

But the promoter tells me, ‘I’ll pick you up in an hour.’ I said, ‘What for…I want to get some sleep. I’m tired from all this travel.’ He told me that I had to go and wrestle before the South Africa Wrestling Commission. I said, ‘Why?’ He told me, ‘They want to know if you’re a wrestler, or not.’ (laughs)

 

Chappell: What??

 

Jacobs: I told the promoter that I had sent over all my publicity information, pictures and so forth. He said, ‘That’s not good enough. You won’t get a license unless they see you.’

 

Chappell: So, what happened when you went up before this Commission?

 

Jacobs: I had to do it…these [Commissioners] were just staring at you. They were pretty tough people over there in those days.

 

I had to wrestle three different guys. I tell you, David, I was glad for my amateur wrestling experience then!

 

Chappell: I bet!

 

Jacobs: I have to wrestle these three guys. We’re 6,000 feet up and the air is thin. I had also eaten the wrong food over in India and still felt bad…and I’d lost a lot of weight!

 

Chappell: This sounds like a nightmare. (laughs)

 

Jacobs: Well, I got through the three guys. I told the last one, ‘So, you think I’m a wrestler now?’ (laughs) I shouldn’t have said that. I guess I was sort of a smart [aleck] by saying that…their Commission had rules and they were just following them. But I still felt sick, and was just perturbed by the whole thing.

 

But, let me tell you about losing all that weight. That led to another problem for me in South Africa…funny little story.

 

Chappell: Okay…

 

Jacobs: The promoter over there was a guy by the name of Bull Heffer…God bless him, he’s passed away now. Before I came over to wrestle for him, he asked me how big I was. I told him I was as big as he needed me to be…I had a trip to Japan planned also and they wanted me big over there.

 

I was about 270-275 (pounds) then, and I had worked out on the weights and had eaten a lot. Bull was pleased when he heard that, because his Champion was a big guy then and he didn’t want the Challenger small in comparison.

 

Anyways, I had eaten the wrong food in India. And believe me, if anyone was going to get sick, it was going to be me. I was so sick, that I couldn’t even leave the country for a while. I couldn’t even leave my hotel room…I was in the bathroom for what seemed like forever! That’s how bad it was!

 

Chappell: No wonder you lost all that weight!

 

Jacobs: Yeah…I was terribly dehydrated and lost weight so fast. And as I said, I was still sick when I finally got to South Africa…and I had to wrestle these three guys and convince their Commission that I was a wrestler. And they put me on the scales for that thing…and the promoter was there of course…

 

Chappell: Oh…and this was the promoter that wanted you to be large to face his large Champion…

 

Jacobs: Yeah! The promoter looked at me and said, ‘You lied to me about your weight, didn’t you?’ I told him that I didn’t lie about it, that I had gotten sick and lost more than 20 pounds, and that I could put it back on in no time flat when I got to feeling right again.

 

Anyways, he didn’t believe me…he thought I had lied to him about my weight earlier.

 

Chappell: So, what happened with you and Bull Heffer then?

 

Jacobs: Well, about two weeks later I was wrestling in Pretoria…that’s the capital of South Africa. I went into the big old dusty building there, and they were weighing guys with their clothes on. I went into a back room, and they had some scales in there…you know, the old kind of scales where you would put all the weights on the scale to balance it out?

 

Chappell: Right…like the ones you see a lot of times at a Doctor’s office.

 

Jacobs: Yeah…and I came from the outside and had my suit and Cowboy boots on….

 

Chappell: Okay Abe…I think I see where this may be going! Those little weights didn’t find their way into your Cowboy boots by chance, did they?  (laughs)

 

Jacobs: (pauses) They just happened to JUMP into my boots! (laughs) So, I filled both of my Cowboy boots up with those weights. And I had my suit on, so I put some in my pockets. But in a suit, you couldn’t put too many in because it would hang down…but I put just enough in there so it looked right. But my boots were full…and I had to walk so they wouldn’t clink!

 

Chappell: (laughing)

 

Jacobs: Those things were sticking into my shins, and were hurting like a son of a gun! So, I walked very SLOWLY through the door and into the room where they were weighing the guys.

 

The promoter was there weighing the guys. I said, ‘Bull, you weighing guys? You want to weigh me right now…I’m here.’ He said, ‘Yeah, yeah…get on [the scales].’ I get on the scales slowly so the weights in my shoes won’t make a noise. I get up there on the scales and they put a weight on…and then they put another weight on…and then they put another weight on! (laughs) The promoter keeps looking at the scales…

 

Chappell: You became a real heavyweight all of a sudden! (laughs)

 

Jacobs: David, I became a SUPER heavyweight! (everybody laughs)

 

I was way up…I was probably over 270 pounds. I was at least around the weight I had told Bull originally. I said to him, ‘You thought I was lying didn’t you?’ He said, ‘Kid…yeah…you look bigger. You been working out hard, right?’ I said, ‘Sure I’ve been working out, you know that. You okay with me now?’ He said, ‘Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.’ I walked away from him real slow, and I couldn’t get those weights out of my boots fast enough! (everybody laughs)

 

Chappell: That’s funny! It sounds like South Africa was a wild place for you!

 

Jacobs: ‘Wild’ is a good word. I’ll tell you about another incident I had in South Africa.

 

New Zealand’s national sport is rugby, and I played a lot of rugby. South Africa’s national sport is rugby also. So one time while I was over there, they were having a big game in Johannesburg. I asked the guys from the office if they were going to the rugby game, and they said they were. And they let me go with them…

 

Chappell: Sounds like fun!

 

Jacobs: Yeah, right! (laughs) We had good seats and all, but when we got in the stadium…I had my Cowboy hat on and everybody recognizes me. Somebody says, ‘HEY, THERE’S THE YANK!’ Over there, everybody from the States is a ‘Yank,’ doesn’t matter if you’re from the South or not! Everybody starts yelling that at me, and eventually they start yelling the old saying, ‘HEY YANKEE—GO HOME!’

 

Chappell: Whoa…I don’t imagine that made you feel real comfortable.

 

Jacobs: Well, then, somebody starts throwing oranges at me. And, there are about 10,000 people in the stands, and now all the people start looking at me. I have this hat on…the only hat within 10,000 miles!

 

Chappell: Yeah, you’re kind of standing out there like a sore thumb Abe.

 

Jacobs: Everybody knew who I was, so when one orange would hit me, the whole stadium would start up doing it. It was like being in a hailstorm! There was an exit right there near us, and I said to the guy I was sitting with, ‘We’re gone.’ He was getting hit too, and he said, ‘I’ve never seen anything like this!’ So, we went out to his car…

 

Chappell: And got the heck out of there!

 

Jacobs: Well, not exactly! (laughs)

 

Chappell: What?!

 

Jacobs: I asked the guy that brought me to the game, ‘Do you have a jacket and a baseball cap?’ He said, ‘Yeah, in the trunk of the car.’ I asked him if I could borrow them, and he let me. I took off my suit coat and hat and put them in his truck, and put his jacket and baseball cap on. He said, ‘What are you doing?’ I said, ‘We’re going to a rugby match!’ He said, ‘They’ll kill you back there!’

 

Chappell: What happened?!

 

Jacobs: I finally talked him into going back in there…we go back there, and nobody recognizes me! We had a good time, and after it was over I gave him his jacket and baseball cap back and said, ‘Thanks!!’  (laughs)

 

Chappell: Some fast thinking! (laughs)

 

Jacobs: Just another adventure when wrestling overseas!  (laughs)

 

PART THREE